Christian Betrothal

This site is for creation of, and discussion of, a return to the Biblical standard for marriage: which involves neither dating or courtship. It is premised on the inerrancy, authority, clarity, and sufficiency of Scripture. Comments that increase the amount of Scriptural authority on this page are welcome. Comments beginning with, or basically including, 'I think' or 'I feel' are not.

Monday, May 4, 2009

The Servant Ate

Gen 24:33  And there was set meat before him to eat: but he said, I will not eat, until I have told mine errand. And he said, Speak on....
Gen 24:49  And now if ye will deal kindly and truly with my master, tell me: and if not, tell me; that I may turn to the right hand, or to the left.
Gen 24:50  Then Laban and Bethuel answered and said, The thing proceedeth from the LORD: we cannot speak unto thee bad or good.
Gen 24:51  Behold, Rebekah is before thee, take her, and go, and let her be thy master's son's wife, as the LORD hath spoken.
Gen 24:52  And it came to pass, that, when Abraham's servant heard their words, he worshipped the LORD, bowing himself to the earth.
Gen 24:53  And the servant brought forth jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment, and gave them to Rebekah: he gave also to her brother and to her mother precious things.
Gen 24:54  And they did eat and drink, he and the men that were with him, and tarried all night; and they rose up in the morning, and he said, Send me away unto my master.
Gen 24:55  And her brother and her mother said, Let the damsel abide with us a few days, at the least ten; after that she shall go.
Gen 24:56  And he said unto them, Hinder me not, seeing the LORD hath prospered my way; send me away that I may go to my master.
Gen 24:57  And they said, We will call the damsel, and enquire at her mouth.
Gen 24:58  And they called Rebekah, and said unto her, Wilt thou go with this man? And she said, I will go.
Gen 24:59  And they sent away Rebekah their sister, and her nurse, and Abraham's servant, and his men. 



Had an interesting conversation on Sunday with one of the men at my church. He seemed quite impressed with the idea that  Gen 24: 58 must mean 'will you marry this man'. We had a very long and very interesting conversation. When I got home I thought about  this conversation, to the extent of waking up at 4 AM. And what came to me at 4 AM was the thought, "The servant ate!"

And so I sent him and others this post, as an email.

Verse 33: 'until I have told my errand'. As we find out later, and this euphemistic speech implies, he did not mean merely 'told my errand' but 'accomplished it' (or find out that he had failed). This is similar to the Biblical language indicating a child should 'listen to his parents'... which by implication means obey.
Verse 49: Here we hear the rest of the implication of verse 33. Speaking to the father and brother he asks them to tell him if they will deal 'kindly and truly'. This will then indicate to him what he needs to do next.
Verse 50 and 51: Without negotiations they agree.
Verse 52: When the servant heard these words, he worshipped the LORD, bowing himself down to the earth. The LORD had answered him again. The first time he worshiped he gave as a reason 'I being in the way, the LORD led me to the house of my master's brethren.' Here no reason is given, but I certainly think one is implied.
Verse 53: The servant then gave gifts. First to Rebecca: Gold, silver, and clothes. Also to her brother and her mother he gave precious things.  He gave, and they accepted. Again, I believe the implication here is clear. (see Gills commentary below)
Verse 54: He ate. By my reckoning, based on his earlier speech, this indicated that he had accomplished what he had come to do. The LORD had blessed his journey. He was successful. (see Gills commentary below)
Verse 54: He awoke and said 'Send me away'. Not: Can I finish my business, let us ask the girl if she consents.
Verse 55: 'Let  her stay... after that she shall go.' 'Shall go.' (see John Gill commentary on the custom of the day).
Verse 56: 'Hinder me not'... Hebrew: Do not delay me. His mission was accomplished, he wanted to return quickly to his master.
Verse 57: 'enquire at her mouth'. (See Gills commentary)
Verse 58: 'Wilt thou go' answer 'I will go'.
Verse 59:  I don't know if you remember your Sherlock Holmes here, but there is a dog that didn't bark in verse 59. Remembering verse 27, and verse 52, if verse 58 had been the final penultimate conclusion of his journey; if it had represented the final agreement to the marriage itself, the servant would (based on his past behavior) again bowed himself in worship.

Indeed my contention is that if verse 58 had been the final and most important answer, it would have needed to have preceded both the servants worship of verse 52 (or that worship been repeated), the servants giving of gifts of verse 53, but most particularly (at least as it seemed to me at 4 in the morning) the servants eating and sleeping. This servant had proven time and again that he did not stand on the order of his going. He did  not pause or delay in his obedience. If Rebecca's statement of verse 58 had been necessary for the fulfillment of his errand, he would have asked for it in verse 52. He would not have eaten until it had been given.

So verse 59 is,  in my view, remarkable for its absence of reaction from the servant. Instead we have a reaction from the mother and brother and her entire family: they sent  her away.  A reaction consistent with my understanding of the question in Verse 58, and the answer. Question: Will you (right now) go (instead of insisting on your normal period of leavetaking)? Answer: I will (right now) go.





Gill: Verse 53: and raiment, and gave [them] to Rebekah; costly suits of clothes such as in those times were given to persons at their marriage, or in order to it; and which custom still continues among the Arabs, who, as Dr. Shaw says {p}, have the marriage contract previously made between the parents, wherein is express mention made not only of the "saddock", as they call that particular sum which the bridegroom settles on the bride; but of the several changes of raiment, and the quantity of jewels, and the number of slaves that the bride is to be attended with when she first waits upon her husband; a gold and silver "sarmah", he says {q}, which is a thin flexible plate of gold or silver, of a triangular shape, artfully cut through and engraven in imitation of lace; one or two sets of earrings bracelets and shekels, a gold chain to hang over their breasts, with half a dozen vests, some of brocades, others of rich silk, were usually the wedding clothes of a lady of fashion. And so in Barbary, the man buys his bride a suit of apparel, earrings, bracelets, a chest, &c. and gives the father a considerable sum of money, according to the qualities and circumstances of the parties {r}:

Gill:Ver. 54. And they did eat and drink, he, and the men that [were] with him,.... Every thing being settled with respect to the affair he came about, he then sat down at table, and ate of the provisions set before him; he and the men that came along with him; and refreshed themselves:

Gill Verse 55: let the damsel abide with us [a few] days, at the least ten; which was but a reasonable request; and if no more time is intended, it is much the servant should object, and not readily agree to it; but in the margin it is, "a full year" or "ten months"; and so Onkelos and Jonathan, and other Jewish writers {u}, who say it was customary for a virgin to have twelve months allowed her to furnish herself with ornaments; and therefore if a full year could not be admitted of, it is requested that at least ten months would be granted: this by many is thought to be unreasonable, that a servant should be desired to stay so long from his master, and especially it would not be asked, when it was perceived he was in such haste to be gone directly; but when it is observed that it was the usual custom of those times for virgins espoused to continue in their father's house a considerable time before the marriage was consummated, and that Rebekah was going into a distant country, and very likely she and her friends would never see each other, the motion will not appear so very extravagant:

Gill Verse 56: seeing, the Lord hath prospered my way; succeeded him in what he came about; and by his being succeeded so well, and so soon, it seemed to be the mind of the Lord that he should hasten his journey homeward:

Gill Verse 57: and inquire at her mouth; what she says to it, whether willing to go directly or not; the matter in question was referred to her, and left to her decision.

Gill Verse 58: and said unto her, wilt thou go with this man? that is, directly; the question was not about her marriage of Isaac, that was agreed upon, and she had doubtless given her consent, and which she tacitly did by accepting of the presents, but about taking the journey immediately:
and she said, I will go; the note of Jarchi is,

"of myself, and even if you are not willing,''

which seems to make her answer rude, as well as resolute; but it must be interpreted consistent with her decent and modest behaviour, and as expressive of her agreeing to go with the man directly, having no manner of objection on her mind to it; but on the contrary found a strong inclination to it, and was determined on it; and perhaps was under a divine impulse, which strongly wrought upon her, and caused her to be so willing to leave her own people, and her father's house.



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Psa 19:7  The law of the LORD /is/ perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD /is/ sure, making wise the simple.

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Thursday, April 9, 2009

A Small Suggestion

Instead of 'What He Must Be..." or my proposed sequel, "What She Must Be..." I think Doctor Baucham would be much better to study the way that the path to marriage is treated in Scripture (Perhaps our formerly private site would be a good place to start) and write two books, entitled:

"How to train your son to be a good husband." and "How to train your daughter to be a good wife."

Followed by a third:

"The marriage of two non-perfect people; a parents guide."

Just a suggestion.

What She must be to Marry my Son

I haven’t read Voddie Baucham’s new book, What He Must Be: ...If He Wants to Marry My Daughter. I have only skimmed it. As always he writes with excellent use of metaphor, and powerful emotive language. As always he has studied the Scriptures wisely and found important Biblical principles, in this case concerning the role of husband and father.

However I do have a concern about this book, and the entire mentality that lays behind it.

We read:
2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 

It seems to me that many in the courtship movement, and in one sense the entire ‘courtship’ concept, are making a grave error in the way that they view their daughters. Paul tells us of his jealously. We read frequently of his care and concern for the church.

Even so many fathers are jealous for their daughters. They care for and are concerned for them. But to what end?

Pauls jealousy had a focus.  But his jealousy, his care, and his concern all had this focus… that he might present the as a chaste virgin to a husband, their husband, Christ.

It has long concerned me that many are not jealous of their daughters for the sake of their husbands, but for their own sakes. “If she cannot marry a perfect husband,” the feeling seems to run, “Better she should not marry at all.”

I am waiting for the companion book, “What She must be to Marry my Son.” I am waiting for the realization that every marriage will and must consist of the marriage of an imperfect man to an imperfect woman. That just as none of our sons are prepared to be husbands and fathers, so are none of our daughters prepared to be wives and mothers. But that God calls them to marriage anyway.

Thursday, March 19, 2009

When does life begin? By Caleb

A fellow named 'Caleb' (other information held upon requestP posted the following on Libertys Light. I thought it was rather good (although not perfect) and asked for permission to repost it here:

When does life begin?

Psalm 139:13-15- "For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."

Jeremiah 1:5- "Therefore I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

Life begins at conception. These verses demonstrate that God personally created and knew babies from the moment of conception. The Hebrew word for knew in the Jeremiah text means that the knower is actually involved in or with the one being known. This kind of knowledge goes beyond knowing of or about an inanimate object, but is a much more intimate term that is applied to living beings. The fact that God would sanctify (lit. set apart) Jeremiah before he came out of the womb also denotes that the unborn baby must have been alive. Why would God set apart a non-living thing to become a prophet to Israel, instead of waiting until it was alive before doing such?

When does life end?

Genesis 9:4- "But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat."

Leviticus 17:11a.- "For the life of the flesh is in the blood:"

Leviticus 17:14- "For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off."

Deuteronomy 12:23- "Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh."

The Bible clearly states here that the life of a person is in the blood. Keep in mind that these passages are instructing the Israelites to drain all of the blood out of an animal before eating it. God does not reveal exactly why He demands this. It could have been for sanitary reasons unbeknownst to the people at that time for example. However, I believe that the principle of life being in the blood can be carefully applied to when a person dies. I would venture to say that death occurs when the heart stops beating, since the heart is the organ that controls the flow and production of blood.

What makes life valuable?

Genesis 2:7- "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."

Numbers 35:31- "Moreover you shall take no ransom for the life of a murderer who is guilty of death, but he shall surely be put to death."

Job 33:4- "The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."

1 Timothy 6:13a.- "I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things,"

I am interpreting this question to mean what makes human life valuable. Obviously my answer would be different for any other form of life. The fact that God is the creator, giver, and sustainer of life is reason enough to consider it valuable. In addition, the strict punishment for murder which is commanded by God also implies that He holds life to be valuable.

When can life be justly taken?

There are at least 18 crimes that God Himself commanded to be punished with death. For want of brevity, I have not listed them, however, if any of you would like the list with backup Scripture verses, I would be happy to furnish you with such. God also commands the slaughter of entire armies and people groups whom He allowed Israel to conquer. God takes His holiness and His commands seriously. All of the ten commandments except for the last one had the death penalty for anyone who broke it. God even allowed men to judge a situation and deem whether or not a person deserved the death penalty.

Numbers 35:30- "Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die."

Deuteronomy 17:6- "At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death."

Deuteronomy 19:12-13- "Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die. Thine eye shall not pity him, but thou shalt put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with thee."

Like it or not, God commands that we judge those who are suspected of committing a crime, and put to death those who deserve the death penalty. Yes, there are crimes that must be punished with death. God commands such. But, this is only to be done with two or three witnesses, thus giving sufficient evidence for the criminal's guilt.

I would disagree with the application of Matthew 7:1 quoted above in regards to judging not, lest we be judged. I believe that the context of this verse is in reference to judging another person's spiritual status (as far as whether or not they are saved.) I don't want to go too much off topic here, but if you would like me to further explain, I would be glad to. Secondly, I appreciate the concern shown in another post above in regards to running the risk of executing someone before they had the chance to repent and trust in Christ alone for salvation. However, I again would have to disagree based on my understanding of the Bible. I believe that the Bible clearly teaches that God will save those whom He has already predetermined to save. Nothing we can do, including executing someone, can change this. Again, I appreciate the concern but respectfully disagree. I am also willing to give the Scripture verses that have lead me to this conclusion is anyone would like; but I want to try to keep from going too far off topic. Maybe on another post.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb

Wednesday, March 18, 2009

Von and John Debate/Discuss

Over on 'Liberties Light' I was PM'ing with an individual named "John" and he said he would like to debate/discuss the issues of Dating/Courtship/Betrothal. So this post will be our 'debate' and I will post what he says, and how I respond here. So, assuming he doesn't wimp out, expect this post to grow.

Rules:

1) As the header says: This site is for creation of, and discussion of, a return to the Biblical standard for marriage: which involves neither dating or courtship. It is premised on the inerrancy, authority, clarity, and sufficiency of Scripture. Comments that increase the amount of Scriptural authority on this page are welcome. Comments beginning with, or basically including, 'I think' or 'I feel' are not.

2) As a Christian site, the various rules of Christian discourse are expected to be in force: only God honoring language, no ad hominem, etc.

For background on this debate, one may also read the discussions over on Mennodiscuss; particularly:

http://mennodiscuss.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=5796
http://mennodiscuss.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=5795
http://mennodiscuss.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7163
http://mennodiscuss.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7567
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Apparently John is out doing lumberjack work this week, so hopefully we will get this going soon. But in the meantime we had a chat and I took some notes. Before we got going on our chat this was his position on the various courtship/betrothal issues:

1) Christian Dating
2) Engagement as an agreement not a covenant
3) Mature marriage not marriage in youth
4) Girl, Girls father, Boy, boys father pick match

I'm not saying that that is his position now, but that was what he told me at the beginning.


Warning, all posts here become the property of the blog author and may be used in any other publication that he publishes.

Friday, February 20, 2009

Due diligence

There is no specific scripture commanding that the father must do ‘due diligence’ when searching for a bride for his son. However it is clear from Scripture that ‘any bride’ won’t do.

In the Old Testament the Patriarchs deliberately searched out a bride from among their own family or nation. Abraham and Isaac were adamant that their sons (Isaac and Jacob) not marry ‘local girls’.
In the New Testament we see the concept of faith replacing that of family. “Be not unequally yoked” we are told. A widow may marry whom she will, but ‘in the Lord’.

And more generally, Proverbs is full of injunctions to wisdom, of making wise choices. Specifically as to wives God asks:
“Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.”
In the story of Abrahams servant, we see that, when asking God for a sign for Isaacs wife, he doesn’t ask for some foolish trivia; such as she is wearing blue, or be the first woman to come, but:
And let it come to pass, that the damsel to whom I shall say, Let down thy pitcher, I pray thee, that I may drink; and she shall say, Drink, and I will give thy camels drink also: let the same be she that thou hast appointed for thy servant Isaac;

Thus the woman that he was seeking would be a hard working, hospitable woman… two of the qualities of an excellent wife (that we see also in Prov 31).

This being said, it should not be presumed that this search was one of long years of careful inquiry. In all of the examples that we see in Scripture the Lord provided not only well, but quickly. It is our society, with the myth of ‘your match’ that delays marriage for years, promoting fornication in thought and deed, in search of ‘the soulmate’.

One important feature of due diligence is what happens long *before* the event. Have you and your wife discussed the minimum qualifications for a wife? If your son were to come to you tommorrow stating (however awkwardly) his need for a wife, would you have any idea how to proceed from there? Have you checked your ideal list against the various possibilities that exist? Or will you only be faced with reality once the issue hits? We all have an ideal list of character qualities that we would like the spouse of our child to have... but we need to check this against reality so as not to put an impossible task on ourselves.

Note: See the page 'dual consent' for another important part of due diligence.

Refered to as husband...wife.

In Scripture the betrothed couple are referred to as 'husband' and 'wife'. We see this with the examples of Joseph and Mary, Christ and the church, and in the OT law.

2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused718 you to onehusband,435 that I may present you as a chaste53 virgin3933 to Christ.

Deut 22: 23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; 24Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
Isa 54:6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
Isa 54:7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
Isa 54:8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.


Matt 1:18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. 20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.



The commentaries are unanimous on this point, at least the ones I have been able to find.

An interesting point is the story of Lot. There is some question in my mind whether or not Lot had married daughters (based on the Hebrew. I haven't seen the verb tenses. Different translations translate them either as already married or betrothed.) But if he didn't, then the men betrothed to his daughters were called 'sons in law'. Gen 19:14